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Comment by sokoloff | original | Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras
[−]sokoloff · 2026-08-30 Sun 00:44 UTC · link
I can’t see a catalytic converter theft on a car parked on the street as burglary. Parked in a (private) garage? Yes, burglary. Parked on the street? No.

So, daytime theft of a converter from a car parked outside wouldn’t qualify I don’t think.

[−]thaumasiotes · 2026-08-30 Sun 01:04 UTC · link
If you sleep in the car it will qualify no matter where you're parked. This also appears to be true of an RV or any vehicle that clearly accommodates sleeping.

For reference:

"Burglary" under the Texas penal code is defined by entering a habitation or any portion of a building that is not open to the public, either with the intent to commit a crime, or when followed by the actual commission of, or the attempt to commit, a crime.

"Robbery" is theft in which the thief causes an injury to someone else. (Or intentionally threatens to do so.)

"Theft" is what it sounds like.

Most notably burglary need not include any element of theft. I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in.

On topic for this particular comment, "habitation" is specifically defined to include vehicles "adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons".

[−]thejazzman · 2026-08-30 Sun 03:43 UTC · link
[−]logicchains · 2026-08-30 Sun 04:27 UTC · link
>I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in.

They're not at all fully interchangeable, just many Americans have a poor grasp of the English language.

[−]thaumasiotes · 2026-08-30 Sun 05:13 UTC · link
The language is solely defined by what people think it means. The terms are in fact fully interchangeable.

If you'd like it packaged in something that looks authoritative, you might consider the following definitions from Merriam-Webster:

burgle: to commit robbery

rob: to take away as loot : steal

thieve: steal, rob

[−]spolitry · 2026-08-30 Sun 12:40 UTC · link
So? Are you proposing that huge classes of law simply must not exist just because laypeople are casual with language?
[−]nkrisc · 2026-08-30 Sun 12:12 UTC · link
English is not some objective, natural thing which exists outside of its usage by people. English is only how it's used by people.

I would wager that for the majority English speakers, the words "theft", "robbery", and (to a lesser degree) "burglary" or more or less fully interchangeable.

They may not be interchangeable in law, but the usage of English in law is famously not always in line with common usage, which is why we have "legalese" which many completely fluent and native English speakers may have trouble understanding without specialized legal training.

[−]dodger-dog · 2026-08-30 Sun 04:56 UTC · link
I have a friend who came out of his house to shoot and kill a guy who was inside his car attempting to steal it. Friend was literally a local celebrity for months.
[−]thaumasiotes · 2026-08-30 Sun 05:49 UTC · link
So what happened? Was there a legal judgment? Did he get legal advice? Did local newspapers commission and publish legal analyses?

(Did this happen in Texas?)

[−]smelendez · 2026-08-30 Sun 06:48 UTC · link
> I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in.

I’ve thought about this too. They often vary from state to state as well. But the alternative would be to create new legal terms, which would be more confusing, or use just use numbers, which would be hard for laypeople to discuss.

[−]thaumasiotes · 2026-08-30 Sun 07:41 UTC · link
> But the alternative would be to create new legal terms, which would be more confusing, or use just use numbers, which would be hard for laypeople to discuss.

Well, compare homicide, which in popular culture is divided into "murder in the first degree", "murder in the second degree", and "murder in the third degree" alternately known as "manslaughter".

It's not clear to me whether you consider those "new legal terms" or "just using numbers", since in my eyes they are terms invented for the purpose of the law, distinguished from each other by numbers.

But they appear to be superior to the division between "burglary", "robbery", and "theft" either way. They have no preexisting meaning (unlike "burglary" and "robbery", which are used in spite of existing contradictory meaning) and they cause no difficulties in discussing the crimes, which we can be certain of because these terms already exist and people discuss them all the time.

In the Texas penal code, homicide is actually divided into "murder", "capital murder", "manslaughter", and "criminally negligent homicide".

These are clearly "new terms" rather than "numbers". They seem pretty straightforward: "murder" is defined in harmony with its natural English-language meaning. "Capital murder" is a variety of murder that allows for capital punishment. "Manslaughter" is homicide caused recklessly rather than intentionally, and is in harmony with the popular understanding of the word "manslaughter". And "criminally negligent homicide" is homicide caused negligently rather than intentionally, and that's also in harmony with the normal construction of noun phrases in English.

If we were instead to give those four categories names that nobody without special training was even capable of distinguishing from one another -- as Texas has already done for "burglary", "robbery", and "theft" -- what would improve? I submit that that would make some things worse while making nothing better.

Compare also the popular-culture division between "assault" and "assault with a deadly weapon". What would giving those two crimes synonymous names accomplish?

[−]smelendez · 2026-08-30 Sun 16:17 UTC · link
First degree, etc. murder isn’t just a pop culture distinction. It’s in the law in various states, notably New York, from where it’s found its way into TV cop shows.

New York also has five degrees of arson: https://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article150.php

[−]nonethewiser · 2026-08-30 Sun 01:08 UTC · link
Parked in your driveway
[−]thaumasiotes · 2026-08-30 Sun 01:12 UTC · link
No, the driveway wouldn't count. Texas doesn't define burglary by property boundaries; you have to enter a "building" or a "habitation", and a habitation must be a "structure" or a "vehicle".
[−]pclmulqdq · 2026-08-30 Sun 03:53 UTC · link
Are you sure that doesn't qualify on the basis that it is the curtilage of your home? Often this counts as "in your dwelling" because it's in your private space that immediately accompanies the dwelling.
[−]thaumasiotes · 2026-08-30 Sun 05:11 UTC · link
> Often this counts as "in your dwelling"

Is this true in any context other than a potential fourth amendment violation by an agent of the state?

[−]slashdev · 2026-08-30 Sun 01:31 UTC · link
It also mentions:

> theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime.

Seems like that qualifies

[−]comrh · 2026-08-30 Sun 04:49 UTC · link
I think this even covers graffiti during the nighttime.
[−]slashdev · 2026-08-30 Sun 13:20 UTC · link
Yes, I think so. I doubt a court would interpret that as being reasonable use of force though. In English common-law it's not just the wording of the laws that matter, one must also look at how the courts have interpreted and applied them.
[−]timcobb · 2026-08-30 Sun 02:27 UTC · link
What's the point of Texas, then? Maybe Florida?