Hacker News

Favorites Setup
Comment by strbean | original | Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production
[−]strbean · 2026-07-02 Thu 00:45 UTC · link
I'd love to find out if electrical muscle stimulation while sleeping could effectively provide exercise without causing excessive sleep disruption. Could be a zero-effort supplemental form of exercise for sedentary people.
[−]Schiendelman · 2026-07-02 Thu 00:59 UTC · link
It can't, because it isn't training your heart and cardiovascular system.
[−]strbean · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:06 UTC · link
Well, it's causing muscle contractions. At high enough intensity, it should raise your heart rate. It's just a matter of what intensity level is tolerable during sleep (and the effect on sleep quality), no?
[−]Schiendelman · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:10 UTC · link
No, that would wake you up long before it had cardiovascular benefit. You need your heart rate up into zone 2 to 5 to really have a positive impact. That's 120 BPM plus for most people. Once you're around 80 it'll wake up anyone, even someone with very low cardiovascular fitness.
[−]strbean · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:16 UTC · link
> Once you're around 80 it'll wake up anyone

Source? I haven't been able to find info on this. I get resuls on nocturnal tachycardia and such. Nothing on elevating a sleeping person's heart rate and observing the result, though.

[−]Schiendelman · 2026-07-02 Thu 02:27 UTC · link
To be clear, if you implanted a lead, you might not wake them up. It's the mechanism by which you would raise their heartrate that would wake them - the same things that elevate heartrate from external stimulation would also cause cortical arousal.
[−]econ · 2026-07-02 Thu 03:10 UTC · link
I read with the right dream (nightmare) heart rate can climb to 180.

If you slowly condition yourself I think you can exchange sleep quality for increased heart rate.

But I suspect the heart needs rest too and you will die.

An isometric hold would be better I think. You don't get any vo2max improvement but it does improve cardiovascular health.

[−]Schiendelman · 2026-07-02 Thu 03:16 UTC · link
That's an interesting idea. Do you know if anyone's tried it?
[−]econ · 2026-07-02 Thu 03:30 UTC · link
[−]chongli · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:00 UTC · link
Carbon dioxide is produced as a metabolic waste product from exercise. Any sort of fat-burning you want to do is limited by the rate at which you can exhale CO2. This is why vigorous exercise is accompanied by heavy breathing. This includes not only cardiovascular training but also weight training. Lifting heavy weights will have you breathing very hard!

Unfortunately, if you don’t lift heavy (or if you use electrical stimulation that’s mild enough to sleep) then you’re not going to put your muscles into hypertrophy, so you won’t gain muscle mass either.

[−]strbean · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:11 UTC · link
With respect to this idea, I'm not particularly interested in either of those goals. More the general longevity and health improvements that come with regular exercise irrespective of weight loss or muscle gain [1].

I haven't been able to find much in the way of research on the tolerability of EMS during sleep. I would be surprised if the idea is actually feasible. It just seems like it would be such a big win if it was.

Personally, I frequently toss and turn and breath heavily, and wake up with a high heart rate. But then, my sleep quality is terrible and when I got a sleep study the sleep phase diagram looked like a seismograph reading during a 4 hour long earthquake, so...

1: https://theconversation.com/exercise-extends-life-even-witho... (Maybe not a great source but I think there is a wealth of evidence for this)

[−]DrJokepu · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:39 UTC · link
Ok well here is a general longevity-related reason why resistance training is important.

Lifting weights also increases bone mass. As you get older, osteoporosis becomes more and more of a concern. You fall one day, and the less bone mass you have built up, the more likely it is that you will lose mobility. There is a strong link between reduced mobility and cognitive decline and also a cascade of other health problems. Old person + hip fracture = significantly increased mortality, and the way to prevent this is by building up bone mass while you still can.

[−]econ · 2026-07-02 Thu 02:46 UTC · link
I hear some people fix their sleep problems by staying awake much longer for some days then follow a strict schedule.

For me, after physical activity sleeping is much easier but if i over do it cortisol wil make it worse. (I once created an exercise formula that kept me awake long enough I started hallucinating) Spinach does miracles for me, the magnesium folate and flavonoids lower cortisol. Popeye was apparently on to something.

YMMV

[−]econ · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:26 UTC · link
I just named my dracula training program.

First, learn to sleep on your back

Second, attach the blanket to the bottom of the bed and learn to sleep with your knees up. Use the blanket to help.

Third, put some books under the legs (on the head end)

Keep adding books until you almost slide down, get used to it and add more books.

Eventually you wake up feeling like you did a proper leg day.

Keep at it and go for isometric nucleus overload. Every 6 weeks remove half the books for 2 weeks.

You will grow enormous legs and they will stay that way.

I suppose you could tie rubber bands to your arms in stead of the books but I haven't tried that. I'm sure it will make for a memorable period of your life. ha-ha