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Comment by rgmerk | original | California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law
[−]rgmerk · 2026-08-30 Sun 07:10 UTC · link
A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem.

I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it.

Personally, I think given there is an actual documented, non-isolated problem with 3D printed guns being used for violent crime, there's a debate to be had that's more sophisticated than "REGULATION BAD".

[−]tancop · 2026-08-30 Sun 07:17 UTC · link
My position on anything is "REGULATION BAD" when it's against individuals and non commercial/open source projects, "REGULATION GOOD" for massive corporations, and "REGULATION MAYBE GOOD NEEDS NUANCED DEBATE" for anything in between.
[−]rgmerk · 2026-08-30 Sun 07:38 UTC · link
Non-commercial projects and individuals can do bad stuff too.

I agree the bar is a lot higher for those projects than massive corporations, but I think it's a pretty arguable case that "people are using 3D printers to make guns with features that would otherwise be illegal, and they are being used in crimes in some number" clears that bar.

[−]xyproto · 2026-08-30 Sun 07:42 UTC · link
What do you mean by regulation? Laws that could lead to a fine or jail time, or the enforcement of laws through ie. the police?
[−]1718627440 · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:05 UTC · link
Individuals can do a lot of bad stuff too? "Mark Zuckerberg" is still an individual.
[−]leni536 · 2026-08-30 Sun 07:48 UTC · link
The problem may exist, but I don't believe that intrusive "gun part deyection" solves it.
[−]crote · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:34 UTC · link
The obvious answer is to slice up your gun model into a number of sub-parts which individually aren't detected by the algorithm but collectively still form a functioning gun. And there's an unlimited number of ways to slice up a model, so it is impossible to create an algorithm which catches everything.

What's next, keep track of all printed parts and invent the math to recombine them in every way possible to see if it could form a gun? Trivially defeated by using multiple printers. Hmmm, sounds like a good reason to force everyone to register their 3D printer with their real identity, and only allow a print after the model has been uploaded to the Federal Printing Database for verification...

[−]left-struck · 2026-08-30 Sun 11:58 UTC · link
Or ya know, make a gun using a cnc machine, or are they gonna ban those too?

It’s so ridiculously easy to assemble a 3d printer from individually sourced parts, and find some open source firmware to run it. How is this going to stop anyone who’s dishonest and slightly motivated?

What’s next is thinking about guns is a thought crime.

There’s a cynical part of me that sees this as having nothing to do with guns. Technology used to empower people. You can do anything with a computer running Linux, you used to be able to go anywhere on the web and do anything you like. There’s wasn’t a curated experience, a whitelist of apps. This is a bad thing for people who want to control and manipulate. They want us to mindlessly use our closed of devices that only show us what they want us to see and do what they approve. 3d printers can’t be allowed in such a world.

[−]Ekaros · 2026-08-30 Sun 13:54 UTC · link
Most sensible explanation to me is that it is getting something that does scanning on the 3d printers. Next step is to make it apply to copyrighted designs. As that is lot more doable. And fascists like to be in control and allow big corporations to exercise their power.
[−]knollimar · 2026-08-30 Sun 15:47 UTC · link
the NY version of the law applies to CNC machines too
[−]regularfry · 2026-08-30 Sun 09:21 UTC · link
Ah, but don't you see? Something Must Be Done, and "gun part detection" is, indeed, Something. (ignoring that it fails the "thing" part of the definition, because it can't possibly exist)
[−]gmueckl · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:17 UTC · link
Then I missed the public discussion on why making it illegal to possess DIY guns is not enough. Did that actually get debated or just handwaved away? By the time I became aware of this whole technical blocking thing, that was the only proposal on the table.
[−]ErroneousBosh · 2026-08-30 Sun 09:01 UTC · link
Ah, I think I know this one. It's because people who make their own guns are nerds. You know, like you or I, except in a different topic. I remember reading a couple of posts on R*dd*t where two folk were discussing fitting accessories to guns and one posted something like "No, you can fit that, all you do is mill a slot on top of the receiver and drill and tap a hole at the end and you can just about screw this thing in place" kind of thing.

I read the discussion and thought "yeah that's nerd talk, just not about analogue synthesizers, old Landrover gearboxes, or Pascal compilers".

I guess the reason for blocking 3D printers from making gun parts is because it's easier than doing it "by hand". All you really need to do is get a copy of the files from someone who has them, print it out in something suitable, and you have viable gun components with very little "real work" involved.

By contrast here in the UK, where it's quite surprising what you're allowed to own and operate if you comply with the laws (here you're allowed fully automatic weapons, if you keep them at a suitable shooting range and don't try to wander around town with them, and you're not oh maybe a convicted violent criminal for example) one of my late father's friends was a gunsmith. My dad was an excellent machinist, and so he made some components for his friend, and I remember standing in the machine shop where they worked while he turned a chamber for a gun his colleague was building in the lathe. "There you go," he said, taking it out of the chuck, "that's legal".

Then he took it over to the mill, and cut a couple of holes and slots that would allow it to actually function as a chamber, "And there - now it's *illegal*."

Then, as he handed it to his friend, who was licensed to have "home made" gun parts, to stamp his initials on, "And now it's legal again."

Of course since people aren't allowed to just walk around with handguns since the school shooting, it's all a little more difficult - but the police will tell you what you need to do to keep it legal.

It's still slightly easier to get a shotgun licence than a motorcycle licence here.

[−]ctjr · 2026-08-30 Sun 11:06 UTC · link
> here you're allowed fully automatic weapons, if you keep them at a suitable shooting range and don't try to wander around town with them, and you're not oh maybe a convicted violent criminal for example

I think you're overstating this. My understanding is that here in GB (unsure about NI) fully automatic firearms are absolutely prohibited with only limited exceptions that the general public are typically ineligible for. Could you elaborate?

[−]15155 · 2026-08-30 Sun 09:15 UTC · link
> making it illegal to possess DIY guns is not enough.

This would be an unconstitutional law, per Bruen.

[−]cityofdelusion · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:21 UTC · link
3d printed guns are just a fancier pipe gun. Physics is the real enemy here. Make thing go fast out of tube is too simple of a design.
[−]defrost · 2026-08-30 Sun 09:09 UTC · link
Still took a bit of effort and lateral thinking to hit 1,00,000 rounds per minute.
[−]crote · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:28 UTC · link
Fully 3D-printed guns have awful performance, though. You would likely get significantly better results improvising with the stuff available at literally any random hardware store. Yet, despite that kind of gun being around for centuries, we weirdly aren't seeing bans on rigid metal tubes yet.

3D-printed "guns" become a real issue when you combine it with unregulated sale of firearm parts and ammunition. To get a fully-functional gun you just need to 3D print a fairly trivial component which is legally considered the entire gun as it carries the serial number. But that's not a 3D printing problem, because there are also companies selling that same part in a mostly-finished legally-not-a-gun form, together with a drilling jig guiding you how to drill the last few holes with a regular Dremel. And nobody is proposing banning Dremels. Heck, it is totally okay to own a lathe - which you can use to make your own high-quality guns!

And the entire discussion is of course pointless once you realize that this is the USA, so anyone is only a weekend road trip away from legally and fully-anonymously buying a gun two states over. If 3D-printed guns are such a huge problem, why aren't we seeing European countries mass-banning 3D printers?

To extend your analogy: it's like being fine with the sale of ultracentrifuges and uranium hexafluoride, then getting upset at someone selling a screwdriver to attach the plug to the power cord of the ultracentrifuge because "screwdrivers lead to nuclear bombs".

3D printed guns are a nothingburger. There is indeed a non-zero number of violent crimes committed with them - but there is also a non-zero number of violent crimes committed with shoelaces, so that's clearly not enough of a reason to ban them. It only makes sense to regulate them if they are involved in a significant number of crimes and leading to a huge increase in gun violence - and at that point you probably want to crack down on all forms of DIY guns instead of just the 3D printed ones. But that's simply not the case, so the regulation is pointless and doing more harm than good.

[−]TacticalCoder · 2026-08-30 Sun 11:30 UTC · link
> ... why aren't we seeing European countries mass-banning 3D printers?

Dunno, because most europeans are way more responsible with their guns than many people in the US?

For example in the EU (and in Switzerland) before you can buy a gun, you get specific training about safe and responsible handling. And in many countries the cops shall come to your place and verify that you've got a gun safe and a separate safe for the ammo.

And we don't offer AR-15 to our kids when they turn 14 y/o (well I say that but my daughter wants to shoot my weapons and, once she turns 14, she can switch from air rifles to the real thing as long as she's accompanied).

Just to be clear: we have shitloads of guns and ammos in Europe. There's even one EU country with concealed carry. I think it's estimated there are twice as many non-registered weapons as registered ones. We've got big guns factories and gun brands in the EU. And there are millions of illegal full-auto weapons like kalashnikovs (well Zastava M70, which is the same) from the war in Yougoslavia in the hands of criminals. And shitloads of fully functional weapons, including handguns, from WWII circulating.

In my native city (Brussels, Belgium), at the moment there are drug dealers firing kalashnikov on police stations regularly (it's a big issue, it's in the news daily and the authorities don't know what to do).

In addition to people shooting at the range (and, sadly, to drug dealers/criminals ruining our cities), we've got lots of hunters too.

Many people at my shooting range have their official gun transport license full (that is 30 weapons) and some have more than 100 weapons in their collection.

It's a fantasy that europeans don't have guns: we're (mostly) responsible with them.

It's maybe because we're responsible with our guns that the EU hasn't banned 3D printers... Yet (it's the EU, so nothing is unthinkable).

[−]lukeify · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:33 UTC · link
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
[−]rfgplk · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:44 UTC · link
> A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem.

Making actual firearms from steel is trivial. In fact you can look up Kalashnikov designs online and then replicate it with a relatively simple mill/lathe/tapping setup.

[−]my-huge-pony · 2026-08-30 Sun 10:08 UTC · link
>relatively simple mill/lathe/tapping setup

To be honest, as someone familiar mostly with computers, I have no idea where to start with this and it sounds a bit intimidating. Buying a 3D printer and using some 3rd party design sound very easy in comparison.

You're certainly right that it's possible for someone determined to make their own firearm, but raising the bar still has immense value.

Tradeoffs between freedom and safety are another, unrelated discussion.

[−]iamnothere · 2026-08-30 Sun 12:44 UTC · link
Just watch a few YouTube videos. It’s not hard. Much easier than software development, although it’s dirty/messy (you use lots of oil and fling metal shavings everywhere) and time consuming.
[−]kotaKat · 2026-08-30 Sun 08:57 UTC · link
Walk into Lowes and buy some steel pipe and a nail.

Congrats, you built a zipgun.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-63198715

There's now much more of a debate that's to be more sophisticated than "3D PRINTED GUNS BAD".

[−]dgellow · 2026-08-30 Sun 09:33 UTC · link
It’s not 3d printed guns, it’s 3d printed parts. You don’t need the 3d printing at all if you want to make a DIY gun in the US, you can literally just buy the gun parts.

You don’t seem to have a good grasp of the topic but already decided the opposition position is „regulation bad“, but that’s not the case at all. The pushback comes from introducing the government as middleman between your slicer and 3d printer, that’s dystopic af

[−]flaunf221 · 2026-08-30 Sun 09:41 UTC · link
> I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor.

Your analogy fails in that yes, you are not allowed to make hobby reactor. But that's because you are not allowed to have any kind of reactor at all.

Banning 3d-printed guns while not banning real guns (which are order of magnitude more effective) makes no sense.

[−]YayCommunism · 2026-08-30 Sun 09:58 UTC · link
Once you know how easy it is to make a gun using parts from a hardware store the concept of banning it becomes a joke.

It’s like trying to ban wrenches.

Lever and tube - that’s what it is. People create makeshift ones even when it’s legal to buy them, because it’s cheap and easy to do so.

You can’t ban computers or personal transportation or words either.

You can’t even ban a person from a website. You can ban an account - but you haven’t stopped the person. Any attempt at playing arbitrary authority you’re gonna lose