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Comment by dmitrygr | original | Why jet engines aren't made in China
[−]dmitrygr · 2026-07-01 Wed 05:26 UTC · link
Material sciences needed for modern jet engine blades are a closely guarded secret, and thanks to not manufacturing them in china, those secrets have managed to remain not stolen.

Fun story: it is not just jet engines - it is only recently that china was able to actually make indigenous ballpoint pens https://www.bbc.com/news/business-38566114

[−]didntknowyou · 2026-07-01 Wed 06:38 UTC · link
recently? and you posted an almost 10yo article?
[−]dmitrygr · 2026-07-01 Wed 06:55 UTC · link
yes, compared to the length of time ballpoint pens have existed (88 years -- since 1938), this is very recent - only 9 years ago
[−]dzhiurgis · 2026-07-01 Wed 07:25 UTC · link
Can Chinese companies order just the blades from RR or P&W?

I've watched their manufacturing video recently and shocked how much of it was hand labour - it's not something I'd associate with precision. My partner said they must know better tho lol.

[−]kevin_thibedeau · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:14 UTC · link
The RR video showing manual assembly of wax molds is a low volume development line. It isn't their main production process.
[−]tedd4u · 2026-07-02 Thu 00:16 UTC · link
I've seen that video. Guaranteed they wouldn't have put the slightest bit of information in there if they thought would help the competition.
[−]notahacker · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:27 UTC · link
They can order engines from RR or P&W

But those companies have no commercial interest in supporting a Chinese manufacturer that just wants the blades even without export controls, when they can make much higher margins selling whole engines that must be maintained using their parts (in practice variants of the engines destined for COMAC also omit some of the IP that finds its way onto Airbus and Boeing because you can help a customer too much...)

[−]ivell · 2026-07-01 Wed 16:38 UTC · link
Seems they have figured out the single crystal blade tech https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/china-crystal-...
[−]akiselev · 2026-07-02 Thu 02:20 UTC · link
From the article:

> DD6 is a second-generation nickel-based single-crystal superalloy developed by the institute with fully independent intellectual property. Its chief engineer, Li Jiarong, said the alloy’s performance matches or exceeds that of comparable second-generation superalloys used in Europe and the United States, at a lower production cost.

US manufacturers have already developed sixth-generation SC superalloys and most Western airlines are on engines with third- and fourth-generation materials.

The technology behind single crystal superalloys is relatively well understood, the problem is getting the process reliable enough to be economical in an industry that requires tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars to develop through trial and error. The TFA's point is that unlike EVs or semiconductors, the turbofan industry is between a rock and a hard place that China's other successful industries weren't.

[−]IHateAcronyms · 2026-07-02 Thu 05:33 UTC · link
TFA = The Featured Article/The F**ing Article
[−]azan_ · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:12 UTC · link
Isn't China currently among the leaders of material science with lots of top 10 universities located in China? [0] (in rankings that do not incorporate prestige but actual scientific output)

[0] https://scholars-stage.org/china-and-the-future-of-science/

[−]wmf · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:19 UTC · link
Quantity isn't quality.
[−]azan_ · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:24 UTC · link
Isn't having universities in global top10 actual quality?
[−]SecretDreams · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:34 UTC · link
Where are the jet engines?
[−]azan_ · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:46 UTC · link
In the making I'm sure. It's really naive to think that jet engine is challenge that won't be overcome.
[−]litbear2022 · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:07 UTC · link
[−]eth0up · 2026-07-02 Thu 00:45 UTC · link
All I know is that they produce a lot of engineers, while the US produces a lot gender studies majors. I rarely say it, but I do not foresee much that they won't be leaving us sharply behind on soon, other than poverty and homelessness, which we have pretty well covered.
[−]bluGill · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:17 UTC · link
There are about as many gender study majors in the U.S. per year as there are aviation engineering majors. That is one small niche of engineering majors that includes all of gender study.
[−]eth0up · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:30 UTC · link
I guess I can relax and stop worrying that we're falling behind a bit. But I do wonder what the numbers really are, and just how many engineers we produce compared to China, of course, without qualifying everyone that learned Visual Basic as an engineer, unless, of course, that's where they're actually getting their own numbers from.
[−]DaedalusII · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:18 UTC · link
its difficult to see from the lens of software and information technology, and open source academia, but physical science is often discovered via experimentation and cant just be brute forced. usually it disseminates as it is adopted into industrial process and is then copied. a lot of scientific discoveries are made due to impulsive-creative intuition

for example: - until the end of ww1 the haber bosch process was confined to germany

- jet engine turbine blades today

- most historically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire , medieval napalm that nobody has been able to replicate even now

[−]TFNA · 2026-07-01 Wed 23:53 UTC · link
You fell for a meme that was tired years ago already (your link is from 2017, after all). The article itself notes, “Relatively low-value items, like ballpoint pens, have not been a priority”, so obviously this says little about higher-priority military and industrial areas to which the CCP devotes greater effort.
[−]8note · 2026-07-02 Thu 01:34 UTC · link
is it really a tired meme?

its a clear prioritzation choice from the government, and that prioritization is itself a technology

notably this same prioritization mode resulted in the soviet union failing to produce quality of life improvements for its citizens.

the failure is that the CCP is unable to prioritize making simple useful stuff

[−]margalabargala · 2026-07-02 Thu 03:43 UTC · link
Ball point pens are surprisingly high precision items. Making a good ball point pen is not easy.
[−]OneDonOne · 2026-07-02 Thu 00:31 UTC · link
It is not the pen, it is the pen tip. Ballpoint pen tips are microscopic tungsten carbide ball held inside ultra-thin steel sockets. So you need cutting tolerances precise to 0.001 millimeters. If the socket is a fraction of a micron too loose, the ink leaks. Too tight, and the pen won't write.

Source from al-Arabiya: https://english.alarabiya.net/variety/2017/01/14/At-last-Chi...

The point (no pun intended) is that China was beginning to crack the processes for making the precision machine tools that make machine tools.

[−]margalabargala · 2026-07-02 Thu 03:44 UTC · link
They are not microscopic! I can easily see the balls in the tips of ballpoint pens.
[−]dingaling · 2026-07-02 Thu 06:06 UTC · link
The ballpoint pen was invented in 1938. It doesn't rely on any arcane manufacturing technology.
[−]NitpickLawyer · 2026-07-02 Thu 02:03 UTC · link
It's not even that. You can have all the designs you need, but you also need a bunch of downstream tech to get from drawings to production. This is something that centrally planned economies struggle with. You can't 5-year-plan your way to jet-engines if you haven't previously 5-year-planned for all the auxiliary infrastructure needed to support that.

We already know this was an issue with the soviets, back when they had the plans for us jet engines (for fighter planes), but couldn't replicate them. Same for stealth, hell even some of their rocketry. And the soviets had plenty of auxiliary systems already in place, during the cold war. As someone said above, they could do quantity, they could do limited high-quality, but couldn't do both at the same time.

There are things that work with 5-year plans: railroads, road infra, buildings, etc. And there are things that are not that easy, and take multiple decades from when the order comes to having it realised. Something that's not immediately obvious for western folks is that when you mix central planning with authoritarian governments, you will get a huge number of pain points along the way, where orders come downwards towards the ones executing them, and overreporting/missrepresentations/lies go upwards. It's like the longest game of telephone, where you start from the top, demanding x y z, get reports that you're on your way of getting 3x, 3y, 3z and in reality you have some of x, none of y, and z looks like z but it's actually three x's in a trench coat.

[−]selimthegrim · 2026-07-02 Thu 05:30 UTC · link
This is of course exemplified by the joke - what's the famous Soviet machine that cuts wood into two pieces? One that cuts wood into three pieces.